1090 replies to this topic

[PlayerOneStewy]

phht!

[lactose]

It's too bad Best Buy and the Shop of the Future don't appear to be carrying the CE in Canada.

As I mentioned I picked mine up at lunch today from Best Buy. They didn't have them out and when I inquired about the game this was the conversation.

Me: Can I get a copy of Gran Turismo please? I would like the Collectors Edition if you have it.
Employee: Grand Turino 3?
Me: ...nevermind...

Found another guy who confirmed that they were not getting any CEs

[famousmortimer]

This game is fantastic. It offers a bit of something for everyone, and as evidenced by the internet, that even includes nitpickers.



I'm level 5 now. Did some A spec races, some go karting, some Nascar school, some license tests, some arcade mode. Each one of those things is amazingly solid and fleshed out.


But let's nitpick! The shadows under the cars that you only see at the start of the race look like horse dung. And Jeff Gordon's lip syncing was crazy off. Actually most of the player models they show walking around are really skinny. WE DONT HAVE TO LIVE UP TO THAT STEREOTYPE HOLLYWOOD!

[dammitmattt]

I've been watching a lot of videos today and I'm amazed at how little Polyphony did to touch up the GT4 tracks. They look like the team used the exact same geometry and assets. That's even more disappointing to me than the standard cars. Once I get the game, I can see myself just sticking to the premium cars and the new tracks.

I'm still trying to figure out what Polyphony has been doing for 6 years in comparison to the output of the much smaller Forza team.

[famousmortimer]

I'm still trying to figure out what Polyphony has been doing for 6 years in comparison to the output of the much smaller Forza team.

Making a far superior game?

[PlayerOneStewy]

I'm sure they've just been sitting on their asses for the past six years. I mean, with all the internet experts saying so, what else could it be?

[levitynyc]

The problem seems to be that the refinements that take longer to do are something that most people don't notice while its omissions and flaws are something that are easy to notice.

[dammitmattt]

I'm sure they've just been sitting on their asses for the past six years. I mean, with all the internet experts saying so, what else could it be?

Oh, come on. I didn't imply that at all. It's a serious question when you look at everything that's jacked up in the game from the GT4 track/car assets to the online multiplayer to the cameras to the interface. GT5 appears to be a severe victim of feature creep getting in the way of polishing the core game.

(Based purely on other people's opinions/reviews) I think the game would have been very well-served to have strong producers from SCEA and SCEE to reign in Kaz, tighten up the core game, and bring the multiplayer up to par with other western driving games. When you look at where the genre has gone with the creation aspects of Forza 2/3, the social aspects of Burnout Paradise/NFS:Hot Pursuit, and the constant rewards of NFS:Shift, it's apparent that GT5 is lagging behind the rest of the genre when it comes to things OUTSIDE of the core game mechanics and ridiculously beautiful graphics (for the premium cars/new tracks, of course). If I've discovered anything about myself as a gamer over the past few years, I've learned that fantastic core mechanics only get you so far. I need other hooks and/or carrots dangling to keep me motivated and feel rewarded. I've done the GT grind four times now and without some of these drivers, I'm not sure if I have the stamina to do it a fifth time. Forza 3 certainly didn't get me there, but at least it has a fantastic online component that I had a lot of fun with for a few weeks at launch.

I dunno, I guess I was just hoping that Polyphony would have taken some of the great things that other developers have done in the genre and applied it to their superior core game. They would have easily created THE definitive driving/racing/multiplayer/social game, but instead, they were interested in doing their own thing. And that's commendable in a way, but disappointing at the same time.

[mik]

I agree with Matt. But it's still awesome.

It really has the feel of a game six years in development. and I wish someone would have had the stones to completely chop off whatever parts of the game were from the earliest part of that development cycle. It's like you can actually see the evolution of the game in the final product. That's not a good thing, imo.

[famousmortimer]

I dunno, I guess I was just hoping that Polyphony would have taken some of the great things that other developers have done in the genre and applied it to their superior core game. They would have easily created THE definitive driving/racing/multiplayer/social game, but instead, they were interested in doing their own thing. And that's commendable in a way, but disappointing at the same time.

I see where you are coming from, and I don't mean to stereotype (ok, yes I do...), but if you thought that was going to happen you clearly don't know the japanese. They refuse to take ideas from anyone, ever. The west has made amazing strides in the online space, japan gives us crazy ass setups like MGS4's. It's just what they do.

[SaitoH]

Man, sign out of PSN if you want to do anything. lol

Ps. any tips on getting the head tracking to work?

[mik]

I could only get it to work in Arcade mode. Seriously. Unfortunately, it is awesome and I wish I could use it everywhere.

[PlayerOneStewy]

Oh, come on. I didn't imply that at all. It's a serious question when you look at everything that's jacked up in the game from the GT4 track/car assets to the online multiplayer to the cameras to the interface. GT5 appears to be a severe victim of feature creep getting in the way of polishing the core game.

(Based purely on other people's opinions/reviews) I think the game would have been very well-served to have strong producers from SCEA and SCEE to reign in Kaz, tighten up the core game, and bring the multiplayer up to par with other western driving games. When you look at where the genre has gone with the creation aspects of Forza 2/3, the social aspects of Burnout Paradise/NFS:Hot Pursuit, and the constant rewards of NFS:Shift, it's apparent that GT5 is lagging behind the rest of the genre when it comes to things OUTSIDE of the core game mechanics and ridiculously beautiful graphics (for the premium cars/new tracks, of course). If I've discovered anything about myself as a gamer over the past few years, I've learned that fantastic core mechanics only get you so far. I need other hooks and/or carrots dangling to keep me motivated and feel rewarded. I've done the GT grind four times now and without some of these drivers, I'm not sure if I have the stamina to do it a fifth time. Forza 3 certainly didn't get me there, but at least it has a fantastic online component that I had a lot of fun with for a few weeks at launch.

I dunno, I guess I was just hoping that Polyphony would have taken some of the great things that other developers have done in the genre and applied it to their superior core game. They would have easily created THE definitive driving/racing/multiplayer/social game, but instead, they were interested in doing their own thing. And that's commendable in a way, but disappointing at the same time.

See, when you explain yourself, you sound less ridiculous in your criticism.

Though I have to agree with mort - if you were expecting this game to take the best of western games and incorporate them, you were destined to be disappointed.

[GSRJedi]

I've only gotten the head-tracking to work in Arcade mode as well, but it's not moving very much for me. I may need to raise it higher as I think it's seeing part of the wheel as I drive.

I just tried out the CE's DLC cars voucher & the preorder voucher from GameStop and was pleasantly surprised to see those cars added to my GT Life garage.

Early on I got some really bad delays between menus and some freezing, but it hasn't happened in the last couple hours. The shadows do look like bantha poodoo. So far early on though, I'm really enjoying myself. The game is playing great with the Fanatec Turbo S and unlike Prologue you don't need to hit triangle to use the clutch (should be the same on G25/G27).

I'll probably be the only person to complain that the CE's model car is too big. It seems to be 1:43 scale and I was hoping it would be the same size as a Hot Wheels car (1:64) since I've got a bunch of those (would like to build a parking garage out of Legos for them, but I'm lazy)

[juanster]

Installing now. Can't wait to play a little later.

The guy at Gamestop asked if I had it preordered for the 360 or the PS3. Took me a second to respond.

[mik]

I've only gotten the head-tracking to work in Arcade mode as well, but it's not moving very much for me. I may need to raise it higher as I think it's seeing part of the wheel as I drive.

I bumped it from the default 2 to 5 and it felt just about perfect to me. I also tightened up the little square where it scans for your face to be as snug on my head as possible, while still allowing me to shift a bit in my seat.

[Wenny]

Loving the game. Hate to disappoint the internet like that but there it is. Of course, I'm only testing the disc out to make sure it works...it's a Christmas present after all...right?

[Indy aka Rex]

Installing now. Can't wait to play a little later.

The guy at Gamestop asked if I had it preordered for the 360 or the PS3. Took me a second to respond.

Next time tell him you pre-ordered it for both.

[famousmortimer]

I'm laying in bed (well, my parents couch) thinking about GT5. I think GT5 is now in the fight to have me by the balls. I don't think my wife will give up easily though.

I'm really pleased with actually playing the game though, which strangely was my biggest concern. I mostly got it because it was so immense I just had to see it, but in the back of my mind I knew that I have never gotten into a GT (or Forza) game as much as the motorstorms and burnouts of the world. I mean, I don't hate sims, I thought shift was amazing (more, um, simcade, but still...)' I used to adore TOCA on the og Xbox. And I did like Forza 2 quite a bit. But, with nfs out now I figured GT5 would fill a curiosity for me but not hook me. Nope, I'm daydreaming abou the fucking game.


Awesome

[Indy aka Rex]

Did any of you pre-order this from Amazon months ago? If you did, what bonus did they send to your email?

I'm pretty sure Amazon was going to email a code for all 5 stealth cars originally and that changed to just the Merc a few weeks back. I only got the Merc code.

[famousmortimer]

Yep, one stealth Mercedes. Supposedly different places got one of the five cars. I only recently preordered so I don't know if amazon ever said they were giving all 5 at one point.

[lactose]

@GSRJedi

What settings are you using for the wheel (the on wheel settings)

I have it at 720 degrees, 100 FF, 70 Rumble, ABS at 0, Drift at 2, Deadzone at 30, Linearity at 100.

Have you tried using the clutch with the paddle shifters? I can't seem to get it to work properly.

[Wenny]

I'm laying in bed (well, my parents couch) thinking about GT5.

I was doing the same thing. Only at my house, not your parents.

[levitynyc]

I was laying in bed thinking of Pete Dodd.

[PlayerOneStewy]

Levity's feverish dreams of Dodd are giving me the itch. I might need to go pick up the standard edition of the game.

[KinectFan]

I've put a good 5 hours into the game so far, and just as I feared it's a very mixed bag for me.

On the one hand the "in the car, on the track" experience is the best I've seen in a game. They nailed the driving model for the game, and the premium car models are as good as we're going to see on this hardware. The sound effects for the engines are also phenomenal.



The problems for me are with almost everything else.

There is a shit ton of content on this disc, but so much of it is literally recycled from GT4, and it's obvious it's recycled. The cars and tracks brought over from GT4 simply don't look as good as they should on this hardware.

The performance of the game engine leaves a lot to be desired, and quite honestly it's dumbfounding how some of these tracks have performance problems. For example, playing some of those recycled GT4 tracks, which clearly have the exact same geometry they had on GT4, have screen tearing happening quite regularly. How the hell does that happen? A team renowned for it's technical abilities, and they can't get an up-rezed GT4 track running perfectly on the PS3?

Then you have tracks that were featured in GT5 Prologue, 2 YEARS AGO, that appear the same here, but unbelievably run worse in the finished game! I can't think of the name of this track, but it's the nordic one with the snowy mountain in the distance. I loved racing that track in Prologue, and I fired it up here and was astonished that it seemed to tear frames easier in this game. Even more insane is that it appeared the bloom lighting effect as you exited the tunnel was toned down a bit.

Sound design was also changed from Prologue, and not for the better. One of those small, but amazing touches in Prologue was the way they used the 5.1 surround sound when in the cockpit view. If the car was a front engine car, you'd hear the sound of the engine coming from the front speakers. The same went for if the car had a rear engine, it sounded like it was located behind you. I loved this feature, and it just added to the immersion factor. Unbelievably the sound designed was altered, and the sound now seems to just be all around you, regardless of where the engine is located on the car you're driving. I looked in the audio options, and found no way to change it back to how it was in Prologue.

Then there are just a ton of stupid design decisions that just scream "Japanese developer who's still programming games like it's 1999". Convoluted menus, having to go back to your garage to "get in" the car you need for this event, etc, etc. It's mind numbingly dumb how some of this stuff works. Everything seems to take 8 button presses, and 2 loading screens longer than it should.

So when it comes right down to it for me, GT5 is the best "in the car, driving on a track in an amazing looking car" sim experience on the market right now. Forza 3 is the better game at everything else.


IMO Sony needs to tell Kaz they greatly respect his passion for cars, and the GT franchise, but he's simply not the best manager of a videogame project. They need to put a producer in place who can help make the right calls when it comes to some of the stupidity that's going on here. There seems to be a lack of focus, and a lack of learning from what other games are doing better than yours. They're stuck in the past in all those little ways, and it really hurts the game in the end. There is also too much attention paid to silly ego driven goals for the game's development, such as announcing many E3's ago that GT5 would run at 1080p. Such a goal is simply dumb on this hardware, and there is a reason almost no other developer has even attempted it. Famously LAIR was one of the early games that did attempt it, and the project fell flat on it's face. Did this 1080p goal damage GT5 greatly? Probably not, but it was undoubtedly a waste of time and resources. They ended up falling short, and the game runs at a 1280x1080 resolution, but it makes one wonder, "Would the game not have these screen tearing problems if the game had a 720p target from day one"? It's quite likely it would have, because pushing that extra resolution is no small feat. This is another example where the Forza team got it right. They knew 720p was the goal from the beginning of Forza 3, and they nailed it on the head without screen tearing rearing it's ugly head.


So that's where I stand on this game. Very impressive in many ways, but very unimpressive in many others. If you look at the best games of the past 5 years, consistency in the execution is always one of those hallmarks that makes the game as amazing as it is. I can only imagine how great this game could have been if it had been a more focused project from day one, and a design team that understands the mistakes of the past when it comes to UI and career progression.

Spoiler

I swear there are literally dozens of small features Forza 3 had that this game doesn't, and I just remembered two more. In GT5 you cannot select a difficulty level for the games AI drivers in the career mode. In the first special event at the Top Gear track I literally could not beat the first race. The AI was insanely tough, and people on other forums are also commenting on this. Also, there are only two options for the driving line in this game. ON or OFF. Forza 3 had 3 options. ON, OFF, and breaking only. Why the GT5 team couldn't have recognized that was a small, but brilliant option is beyond me, but they had a year to figure this out, and they didn't.

[SaitoH]

Man, I love using the wheel in GT5. I don't have a lot of things to compare to, but it feels so much better than shift.

Edit: Stopped by EB again, Stewy. They are pretty adamant that they are not getting any more Collectors editions after their Friday shipment and those are already spoken for. You might check with them on Friday afternoon to see if anyone cancels.

[famousmortimer]

Just like matt, I agree with most of what you say tiger.... but you have to be crazy to think the game was going to turn out any other way. It's like getting mad at COD for having a leveling system (throwing off competitive balance) or getting mad at WoW for dumbing down typical MMO staples... you might be right, but you're crazy to assume anything else would happen, and those games rule despite that fact.

If someone wants a game they can nitpick to death GT5 is about as good as it gets in that regard. But, man, it's so freakin good. Take off your jaded gamer pants and enjoy the game for what it is, don't go out of your mind nitpicking it for what it isn't.

[juanster]

I thought there was going to be a 10gb install? The game shows that only 6.5gb is intalled? Is that right, or am I missing something?

[KinectFan]

Just like matt, I agree with most of what you say tiger.... but you have to be crazy to think the game was going to turn out any other way. It's like getting mad at COD for having a leveling system (throwing off competitive balance) or getting mad at WoW for dumbing down typical MMO staples... you might be right, but you're crazy to assume anything else would happen, and those games rule despite that fact.

If someone wants a game they can nitpick to death GT5 is about as good as it gets in that regard. But, man, it's so freakin good. Take off your jaded gamer pants and enjoy the game for what it is, don't go out of your mind nitpicking it for what it isn't.

First off, COD's leveling system does not throw off competitive balance. That is fallacy that people who aren't good at the game have created.


I really think you're being way too forgiving about how GT5 has turned out. Recycled GT4 tracks that have screen tearing? Tracks that were in Prologue 2.5 years ago, and they run worse in the final game?!? That kind of shit is just ridiculous, especially from a game that was 5 years in the making. There is no way to defend that, and that is why I think this entire project just got away from a the development team a bit. They were so set in their ways that when Sony called and said "The game ships now", they just weren't completely where they wanted to be with it.

I can somewhat ignore the dumb UI problems, but the technical problems are the ones that really got me sad at how the game had turned out.

[KinectFan]

I thought there was going to be a 10gb install? The game shows that only 6.5gb is intalled? Is that right, or am I missing something?

It's weird. It says 10, but everyone got 6.5. It's possible it could add more as times goes on though.

[Outlaw Moogle]

http://www.joystiq.c...ess-patch-comin

Really? They set the servers up to only handle 500k connections and programmed the game to always be connected to the server? Did they think the game was going to totally bomb or something?

[famousmortimer]

First off, COD's leveling system does not throw off competitive balance. That is fallacy that people who aren't good at the game have created.


I really think you're being way too forgiving about how GT5 has turned out. Recycled GT4 tracks that have screen tearing? Tracks that were in Prologue 2.5 years ago, and they run worse in the final game?!? That kind of shit is just ridiculous, especially from a game that was 5 years in the making. There is no way to defend that, and that is why I think this entire project just got away from a the development team a bit. They were so set in their ways that when Sony called and said "The game ships now", they just weren't completely where they wanted to be with it.

I can somewhat ignore the dumb UI problems, but the technical problems are the ones that really got me sad at how the game had turned out.

It must be miserable being you.

[KinectFan]

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/25/gran-turismo-5-hampered-by-constant-internet-access-patch-comin

Really? They set the servers up to only handle 500k connections and programmed the game to always be connected to the server? Did they think the game was going to totally bomb or something?

Surely the person saying that had to be aware of how dumb that sounded when they said it.

[Wenny]

Surely the person saying that had to be aware of how dumb that sounded when they said it.

That's never stopped you.

[GSRJedi]

@GSRJedi

What settings are you using for the wheel (the on wheel settings)

I have it at 720 degrees, 100 FF, 70 Rumble, ABS at 0, Drift at 2, Deadzone at 30, Linearity at 100.

Have you tried using the clutch with the paddle shifters? I can't seem to get it to work properly.

Truthfully, I haven't played much with the settings. I need to mess with my ABS to see if I can help my feel for turning the in-game ABS off. I haven't updated the firmware so I don't have the deadzone or linearity settings (tried once but couldn't get it to work, will have to try again)

I've got the wheel at 900 degrees (I haven't confirmed it yet, but I've heard that the game changes the wheel steering ratio depending on the car-so karts are like 160 and a roadcar would be more-don't know if this will work on the Fanatec or just the DFGT); my FF is 66, but that's because the wheel used to make a noise after extended use with it at 100 & I just dropped it to 66 and haven't changed it since

[KinectFan]

It must be miserable being you.

I'm quite okay thanks. If accepting obvious flaws with a game 5 years in development makes you happy, rock on!


For the record, GT5 is currently the lowest rated game in the franchise. So it would seem I'm not alone in my feelings on it.

[PlayerOneStewy]

You were making your points well, but bringing up the whole "reviewers agree with me" thing is a bit of a copout. Just looking at the list over at Gamerankings.com, Prologue is actually the lowest-rated GT game.

Plus GT4 only rated about .5 higher on their list.

Plus their number is only being taken from 8 sources right now, as some of the biggest review sites either haven't been included or haven't yet been published. Taking 1up's A- score would probably put GT5 over the top at this moment, considering it would be worth more than 10% of the average rating.

Using reviews to validate your opinion is a slippery slope, because most folks (and I know you've done this) will turn around at a later point and call bullshit on a review of a big game that they don't agree with.

Carry on.

[PlayerOneStewy]

I've been playing for a couple hours now, and one of the things that's pleasantly surprised me is the pacing. GT games have always started out so slow and boring, locking all the best content behind hours of slogging through license tests and lower-tier races.

But I find the special event stuff in GT5 to be the perfect balance so far. I do a couple of A-spec races, hit a level threshold, then jump into special events for some karting or nascar or top gear or whatever. It's made the lower-tier races a lot easier to take so far.

And God DAMN does the interior of my Integra ever look sweet during night races.

[Tusken77]

I've been playing for a couple hours now, and one of the things that's pleasantly surprised me is the pacing. GT games have always started out so slow and boring, locking all the best content behind hours of slogging through license tests and lower-tier races.

But I find the special event stuff in GT5 to be the perfect balance so far. I do a couple of A-spec races, hit a level threshold, then jump into special events for some karting or nascar or top gear or whatever. It's made the lower-tier races a lot easier to take so far.

And God DAMN does the interior of my Integra ever look sweet during night races.

And the good news is Kaz has confirmed there's more Special Events coming via DLC.