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#241 Indy aka Rex

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:00 AM

Oh for fuck sake... Now that Bioware's conceded to all the BS outcry, people are bitching about how they're not "happy" with their decision, how they should've stuck to their original vision, or because the game was already "ruined" for them.

Fucking fanboys.
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#242 gokieks

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:27 AM

Oh for fuck sake... Now that Bioware's conceded to all the BS outcry, people are bitching about how they're not "happy" with their decision, how they should've stuck to their original vision, or because the game was already "ruined" for them.

Fucking fanboys.


It's very hard to give any credence to your dismissal of people's complaints about the ending when you've done so before you even played through the game.

And calling BioWare's response to the complaints as a "concession" is being more than little generous, including Muzyka's letter today that was little more than typical PR garbage, with the only point of substance being "we'll say more in April" (which you don't even need to be a full on cynic to think may just be a way to diffuse the fan vitriol and hope people have stopped caring in a few weeks).
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#243 Kirbutashi

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:58 AM

Animation has always been janky in Mass Effect games from day one. You still get the occasional goldmine, but mostly things will jerk and snap all the way to the end.

Anyways, after today's message from Muzyka at Bioware, I think the thing I'm most frustrated with are game critics going to town on twitter and such, mad at Bioware (even though they've said nothing more than that they're "listening to constructive criticism") and boiling fan uproar down to just wanting a happy ending. Talk about not getting it at all.
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#244 momerath

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:24 AM

Animation has always been janky in Mass Effect games from day one. You still get the occasional goldmine, but mostly things will jerk and snap all the way to the end.

Anyways, after today's message from Muzyka at Bioware, I think the thing I'm most frustrated with are game critics going to town on twitter and such, mad at Bioware (even though they've said nothing more than that they're "listening to constructive criticism") and boiling fan uproar down to just wanting a happy ending. Talk about not getting it at all.


Yeah, it bugs me to see people boiling it down to people wanting a "happy ending." Maybe there are some fans out there who want a joyful, gleeful happy ending, but I personally don't give a damn if they want to make the most depressing ending ever-- it's their story and I respect the tone of their ending either way. What I *was* disappointed by, though, was that Bioware decided to pick up their stuff and just go home rather than bother resolving... you know... anything.
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#245 PlayerOneCJ

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:49 AM

I just think this is a bad precedent to set. Yeah he didn't say they're going to change the ending, but that's the implication of the response. And it shows that if fans of something complain loudly enough on the Internet they'll get what they want.
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#246 mik

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:59 AM

In my role of resident cynic, I just see this as BioWare getting to eat their cake and have it, too.
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#247 gokieks

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:05 PM

It's only a bad precedent if you believe that all fan complaints are the same in validity (with the strong implication being that none of them are). There have been plenty of fan outrage over games before, but the backlash over ME3 ending is pretty much unprecedented in scope (especially post-release), and there's a reason for that.
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#248 famousmortimer

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:06 PM

Money rules the world, we all know this, and bioware knows it's on a losing streak in terms of fan reaction to its games. It's a panic move to even respond to these criticisms and even worse if they do something about it, but in some way I don't blame them because between this and Dragon Age 2 they've gone from one of my favorite developers to one of my most hated... and I don't think i'm alone in feeling that way.


But the problem with all of this is that they are treating their videogames as a commodity and not as a piece of art. This has been the problem all along, with the dumbing down of RPG aspects, upping the action, delaying the game to add multiplayer, adding DLC like motherfuckers... including day one DLC that seems to have been proven to have been ripped out of the game. Bioware isn't making art, they are making products. And that's fine, they are allowed to do that... but that's why they've lost me. Make a game and story because you believe in it, not because you are jumping through whatever hoops to chase the almighty dollar.

I'm sure Bioware wanted to make money when they made KOTOR, but I am also willing to bet that they were incredibly proud of what they created and put a lot of heart and soul into the art of it and didn't base every little thing in the game on making money. This, to me, is the difference between bioware then and bioware now.
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#249 Jonnjonzz

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

I think I figured out the real reason why most people aren't happy with the ending.

Spoiler

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#250 momerath

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:10 PM

I think I figured out the real reason why most people aren't happy with the ending.

Spoiler


That is precisely my biggest problem with the ending.

Edited by momerath, 21 March 2012 - 12:11 PM.

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#251 Thrillhouse17

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:21 PM

To be fair though, the ending is really bad. I think that's the main thing.
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#252 momerath

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:35 PM

I can see it now... "Breaking news: more Mass Effect 3 ending material found to already be on-disc, behind DLC unlock key."


:P
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#253 Kirbutashi

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:48 PM

Money rules the world, we all know this, and bioware knows it's on a losing streak in terms of fan reaction to its games. It's a panic move to even respond to these criticisms and even worse if they do something about it, but in some way I don't blame them because between this and Dragon Age 2 they've gone from one of my favorite developers to one of my most hated... and I don't think i'm alone in feeling that way.


But the problem with all of this is that they are treating their videogames as a commodity and not as a piece of art. This has been the problem all along, with the dumbing down of RPG aspects, upping the action, delaying the game to add multiplayer, adding DLC like motherfuckers... including day one DLC that seems to have been proven to have been ripped out of the game. Bioware isn't making art, they are making products. And that's fine, they are allowed to do that... but that's why they've lost me. Make a game and story because you believe in it, not because you are jumping through whatever hoops to chase the almighty dollar.

I'm sure Bioware wanted to make money when they made KOTOR, but I am also willing to bet that they were incredibly proud of what they created and put a lot of heart and soul into the art of it and didn't base every little thing in the game on making money. This, to me, is the difference between bioware then and bioware now.



This is true of anyone putting a game in a box to sell on a shelf, not just Bioware. I can guarantee you that there are developers in there that still believe in what they're making, too. For all the DLC mistakes and horrible endings and other ugly business stuff that takes place, there's still a pretty good game wrapped in one of the most fantastic original sci fi settings gaming has ever seen. For Mass Effect and its player choice formula (that they fucking forgot at the end end) to have resulted in this much outcry while other games just get forgotten one week later is pretty impressive in its own right.

I would love to know if the one of the series' lead writer leaving before ME3 resulted in some of this madness.
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#254 PlayerOneStewy

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

I just think this is a bad precedent to set. Yeah he didn't say they're going to change the ending, but that's the implication of the response. And it shows that if fans of something complain loudly enough on the Internet they'll get what they want.


I don't think there was any implication in their statement that they would change the ending. All they really said was that they are listening to constructive criticism and will strive to clarify it and give some more closure. Sensationalist news articles are what's adding in the element of "they're implying they'll change the ending."

At least that's how I read it.
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#255 Phineas Gage

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:18 PM

In my role of resident cynic, I just see this as BioWare getting to eat their cake and have it, too.


This is the exact phrase that came into my head as I read the first few lines of Muzyka's message. I'd be very surprised to see them do anything substantial.

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#256 PlayerOneStewy

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

I still think the idea was to drive sales of DLC all along and this whole controversy has fed into it perfectly.
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#257 mik

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:16 PM

No way! They were NEVER going to have post-release DLC that tied in to the plot. That's just crazy talk.
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#258 Thrillhouse17

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:46 PM



20 minutes of some internet dude breaking down why the ME3 ending is stupid and full of plot holes.

The internet has everything.
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#259 PlayerOneStewy

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:24 PM

That's 19:46 longer than I would watch even if I were remotely interested.
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#260 Jonnjonzz

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:28 PM

I just like it for quoting the makers of the game saying they wouldn't do exactly what they did.
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#261 Jonnjonzz

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 04:36 AM

After listening to the latest Games Dammit! and after rolling my eyes at the amazing stupidity of it all, I would just like some "games journalists" to actually have an honest discussion with someone who is not the rabid internet people they are talking about, with regards to the mess of an ending this game has.
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#262 dammitmattt

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:37 AM

I've been avoiding this thread like the plague because I'm only a little over halfway through the game, but as much as I'm enjoying myself, I'm not FEELING it the same way as the first two games. There are a number of things that are objectively better from ME2, but there's just something a little bit off about the pacing and the story for me so far. I'm not even sure if I can define it, but it's just not the obvious GOTY for me that ME2 was.

On another note, I only played the multiplayer for about 2 hours one Saturday afternoon, but I REALLY enjoyed it. I got my Engineer up to level 11 in that short amount of time.

Edited by dammitmattt, 23 March 2012 - 10:38 AM.

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#263 momerath

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

I've been avoiding this thread like the plague because I'm only a little over halfway through the game, but as much as I'm enjoying myself, I'm not FEELING it the same way as the first two games. There are a number of things that are objectively better from ME2, but there's just something a little bit off about the pacing and the story for me so far. I'm not even sure if I can define it, but it's just not the obvious GOTY for me that ME2 was.

On another note, I only played the multiplayer for about 2 hours one Saturday afternoon, but I REALLY enjoyed it. I got my Engineer up to level 11 in that short amount of time.


After some thought now that it's been almost a week since finishing, I agree. While ME3 was a great game, and I enjoyed my time with it, it just didn't grab me the way ME2 did. That was the high point of the trilogy for me.
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#264 Kirbutashi

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

ME1 is still my favorite by far. It has the benefit of establishing the world. I also loved the Mako planet exploration and Virmire remains my favorite locale in the series. My main issue with ME3 is that they just completely stripped out the ability to just find places to go in the galaxy like in 1 and 2. Maybe that's why the pacing feels weird for you, Matt; all you have is planet scanning, fetch quests, and set missions from the game.

Other than the ending, however, I still really loved ME3. Once whatever DLC comes out in the future, I'll do my second renegade playthrough of misery. I've seen a lot of the shit that happens on that and it is not pretty.
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#265 dammitmattt

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:52 PM

I'm really interested to see the following scenarios for my Renegade playthrough:

1. Renegade from previous games with everyone alive in ME2 just to be a dick to them
Spoiler

2. Renegade from previous games with everyone dead in ME2 just to see what the character-specific moments/side missions are like. For instance, I did the Jacob mission last night. I assume it plays out exactly the same but I don't get him (or his lady?) as a war asset and everything else for that mission is more generic. Also, on the missions where characters bite it, I wonder who it is that takes their place as the hero of the day?

Unfortunately, I didn't have a save with everyone dead so I can only try scenario 1.

Any word on how tough Insanity is? I never finished ME2 on Insanity because it was nearly impossible (and definitely not fun) with a Vanguard, but I'd really like my Renegade playthrough to be on Insanity so I can kill two birds with one stone. Any word on which class is best for Insanity this time around? Vanguard is better but it's probably still not viable.

Edited by dammitmattt, 23 March 2012 - 12:52 PM.

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#266 gamer812

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

Any word on how tough Insanity is? I never finished ME2 on Insanity because it was nearly impossible (and definitely not fun) with a Vanguard, but I'd really like my Renegade playthrough to be on Insanity so I can kill two birds with one stone. Any word on which class is best for Insanity this time around? Vanguard is better but it's probably still not viable.


Insanity in ME3 is pretty easy as you don't have to deal with those big, bulbous husks that shockwave the hell out of you. You just need to worry about those damn turrets. I bitched about the difficulty early on but once you start upgrading your weapons and powers, it gets insanely (ha) easy. I played Vanguard as well and having shields recharge every time I did a biotic charge helped a lot. Biotic explosions from teammates is very helpful against brutes and banshees especially late in the game (Warp + Shockwave = lifesaver).
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#267 DistantStorm

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:49 AM

Here's a question: how do you unlock character appearance customization options in MP? The game says they're available in "reinforcement packs" . Is it referring to the rookie/veteran/spectre packs in a generic way? I've been playing a SHITLOAD of MP, and aside from the occasional new character, I haven't come across any kind of appearance mod. So what's the deal?
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#268 Kirbutashi

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:38 AM

You get appearance options when you receive a character again from a pack. It only unlocks a little bit at a time, too.
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#269 Compeau

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:31 PM

I finally beat the game. Took me about 42 hours, and my number was around 6600.

Spoiler

Edited by Compeau, 30 March 2012 - 06:32 PM.

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#270 momerath

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:55 PM

I finally beat the game. Took me about 42 hours, and my number was around 6600.

Spoiler


I think you and I are actually in agreement, though maybe I worded myself poorly.

Clarification:

Spoiler


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#271 Jonnjonzz

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:12 PM

Spoiler


Bioware said that the endings are suppose to be thought provoking, and they are. It's just that the more you think about them, the more they make no sense on any level.

A Red Letter Media style review that goes over the stupidity of the endings in a pretty damn intelligent way.
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#272 Compeau

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:34 PM

I think you and I are actually in agreement, though maybe I worded myself poorly.

Clarification:

Spoiler



Spoiler

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#273 Jonnjonzz

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:45 PM

Spoiler

Spoiler

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#274 Compeau

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:59 PM

Spoiler


Spoiler


edit:

Spoiler

Edited by Compeau, 30 March 2012 - 08:07 PM.

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#275 Jonnjonzz

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:12 PM

Spoiler

Spoiler

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#276 momerath

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:42 PM

Spoiler

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#277 Jonnjonzz

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:33 PM

Spoiler

Spoiler

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#278 gamer812

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 11:30 PM

Spoiler


:) That made me chuckle.
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#279 MojoBox

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:40 PM

So yesterday my roommates copy stopped working, just froze at the loading screen. After doing a lot of checking around and testing, turns out there's some glitch that totally fucks up the game for a given Gamertag and just flat breaks the game. The only real fix I've found involves dumping your profile to a flash drive and using 3rd party software to delete the corrupted file before restoring it to the HDD, yikes!
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#280 Kirbutashi

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:42 AM

Well, Bioware just announced their free Extended Cut ending DLC for the summer. I'm going to go ahead and make the bold prediction that they would have been better off not having done anything to their horrible ending. The last thing that it needed is padding and clarification for things that are so fundamentally flawed to begin with.

Oh well.
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