19 replies to this topic

[Finchdiddly]

It's a Sony centric podcast, with Shoe and Shane both bashing and supporting the platform. Oh, something about some guy named Jack Tretton. Also, some nice Nintendo bashing as well. Please leave thoughts and comments.

Edited by Finchdiddly, 12 February 2007 - 08:27 PM.

[mik]

Just listened to it. More of the same from Shane and Hsu.

I feel sort of stupid sticking up for Shane, but I think someone has to, because that dude is the worst. debater. in history.

In my mind, the PS3 has a single, massive problem that's keeping them down, and it's the same one the 360 faced at this point in its lifespan: it's in desperate need of some good exclusive games, and at least one great one. The difference, of course, is that the 360 faced this dilemma with no contemporary-gen competition. If, for example, God of War II was a made-for-PS3 game, come March, much of the squawking would cease.

They have other problems, of course--their PR is horrible, their execs keep putting their collective foot in their mouth, their online plan is sketchy (at best), it's expensive, etc. But, it still seems to me that they're about one AAA title away from silencing many critics.

I think Sony supporters (Shane included) consistently flub the price argument, by comparing the 60GB PS3 with the Premium 360. The 20GB PS3 is a much more apples-to-apples comparison, despite it being the perceived "gimped version." When I reflect on paying $400 for my 360 at launch and paying $500 for my PS3, I definitely feel I got $100 more in the Sony hardware with the Blu-Ray player alone. I understand that some people resent the Blu-Ray Trojan Horse being included at all, but it's a nice feature, and--since it cost me, functionally, half what the 360's HD-DVD option would--a welcome one to me.

Including only a composite cable is lame. Period. A solution like Microsoft's is a much better, more reasonable solution. Of course, you could also mention that Sony does include the cable required to charge your rechargeable controller--which Microsoft does not. In both cases, I had to spend $20 on a cable I would have preferred to see included. (yes, you could use your own rechargeable AA batteries, because, you know, those are free...or something)

Tretton's comment about the PS3's availability was a stupid one, and just goes to show how far removed these execs are from reality. And I think that's across the board. I was glad to hear them point out how difficult Nintendo is to deal with, because I think they have their fair share of things to answer for. Ditto Microsoft.

Finally, I'm not quite sure how I feel about Hsu's apparent campaign to become gaming journalism's own Edward R. Murrow. This interview--along with his earlier Peter Moore interrogation--really cast a negative pall on a magazine I read for different reasons entirely. Providing coverage and passing judgment on games and hardware is enough for me. I don't really need a gaming magazine to uncover the various deceits of corporate machines. If they want to take a more serious journalistic tack, I think readers would appreciate an approach more akin to the way Next Generation did it in the 32-bit days. Although, that didn't really end well, did it?

[PlayerOneCJ]

Sounds like the problems with their sound have not been fixed yet. #39;( I'm playing it on my iMac, full blast, and it's pretty quiet.

[mik]

Weird. Sounded fine on my iPod. Jennifer sounded like she was talking from a tuna fish can at first, but then it leveled out.

[falcomadol]

Their podcast is very quiet.

I support Hsu in whatever it is he's trying to do, at least, philosophically. I find EGM to be a useless purchase because 75% of the magazine is full of articles and reviews and previews and ads for games that are either PS2 or multiplatform. The multiplatform games are generally known quantities, and I don't own any Sony consoles (nor will I).

The remainder is outdated news, ugly covers, and just general crap that's not worth my money.

I get the feeling that people at Ziff are getting tired of Shane. Not because of his "opinions" but because he just can't let go of the spotlight. He's a major prima dona, and no one really wants to work with people like that on a day to day basis.

[probune]

This episode was really interesting. It's a much better Shoe/Shane debate than the other one which was just both of them yelling at each other about online plans. I can actually agree with both, for a change.

[PlayerOneCJ]

That was a good ep of EGM Live. One thing I do disagree on is that I do think the cover can easily be called a negative PS3 cover. Two months after launch I don't know if that was the way to go...on the cover. I question whether you can sell magazines by throwing tomatoes at PS3. I like the feature inside a lot and I think it's great they grilled Tretton, but why not tie the cover to a game -- like VF5? It was Game of the Month, and I think it would've made a more striking cover image. Because even though there was bad news and criticism over the PS3's launch, there are several lights at the end of the tunnel and...the cover wasn't as striking in practice as the concept was.

I agree with Kevin Gifford's analysis of it on GameSetWatch...they need to get back to putting a game on the cover. The concept covers don't work too well when you have a couple in a row.

Just my personal opinion. Great issue on the inside though.

[probune]

One thing I do disagree on is that I do think the cover can easily be called a negative PS3 cover. Two months after launch I don't know if that was the way to go...on the cover. I question whether you can sell magazines by throwing tomatoes at PS3.

I totally agree on that point. On the podcast, Shoe did say that they're a little worried about how well the issue will sell because of the cover image, and they're right to. I really don't like the way the cover looks, myself, and I know that I wouldn't pick up the issue at all if I weren't as interested in the industry itself. Most people don't care about the PS3, Wii or 360, they like the games on the system and they'd pick up a magazine to read about those instead of an interview.

I would also agree that they should have put VF5 on the cover. Maybe a review cover of that or something and just have the big feature be the Tretton interview. I understand from the GFW podcast that review covers don't always work out that well, though.

[Finchdiddly]

One thing I liked hearing about was how difficult it is to deal with Nintendo. I know the big N isn’t the easiest company to get along with; but I didn’t know it was so difficult to get anything done with them. But I’m not sure if it’s Nintendo being cocky, or if they’re just overprotective of their assets. Does anyone on the Player One Crew have any horror stories about Nintendo?

Also, I’m disappointed to hear that 1up got so close to getting the big three in one room, only to have called off because of Nintendo. Hopefully 1up, or someone else, will be able to do that roundtable in the near future.

[qbkorso]

I think Sony supporters (Shane included) consistently flub the price argument, by comparing the 60GB PS3 with the Premium 360. The 20GB PS3 is a much more apples-to-apples comparison, despite it being the perceived "gimped version." When I reflect on paying $400 for my 360 at launch and paying $500 for my PS3, I definitely feel I got $100 more in the Sony hardware with the Blu-Ray player alone. I understand that some people resent the Blu-Ray Trojan Horse being included at all, but it's a nice feature, and--since it cost me, functionally, half what the 360's HD-DVD option would--a welcome one to me.

I would have to disagree. Blu-Ray is not a necessary at this point. Why is Sony making me have one of these Blu-Ray player? Most people that play games are not yet even considering a HDTV because the price point is to high. DVD is still a relative new technology. People have spend the past time since the DVD updating there collections. Why would people be willing to buy all there movies all over again? The DVD did help sell the PS2, but people were ready for the technology. Why did laser disc fail? At least MS is giving me a choice whether I can play HD movies or not. Gaming systems are for GAMES!!! EERRR!! I will not be force to have technology I will not use. I think that is very unfair.

I will have to agree with Shoe 100% Shane's arguments are completely flawed. He is really just a fanboy and I am tried of hearing his voice. I really believe Sony bit off most then they could chew and they are getting rightly negative press. This is not to say that MS is perfect.

[mik]

Of course Blu-Ray isn't necessary--but it's a nice feature. You clearly fall into the category I mentioned of folks who "resent the Blu-Ray Trojan Horse." That's fine. I personally don't understand the "why is Sony making me have one of these Blu-Ray players?" comment. What game system has ever been à la carte? To me, Blu-Ray is part of what makes the PS3 what it is.

And no one has to buy their movies all over again--like they did in the switch from VHS to DVD. You can still play all your DVD movies on a Blu-Ray player (or an HD-DVD).

[qbkorso]

No I don't buy my systems to meet my custom specifications. But what the hell good is a Blu-Ray player for someone like me that's in college, doesn't have an HDTV and has no plans to buy one in the near future? I buy a system for games not a freaking HD movie player.

[PlayerOneCJ]

No I don't buy my systems to meet my custom specifications. But what the hell good is a Blu-Ray player for someone like me that's in college, doesn't have an HDTV and has no plans to buy one in the near future? I buy a system for games not a freaking HD movie player.

If I didn't have an HDTV, that would be my stance as well. They've effectively priced themselves outside the range of a lot of their core customers, many of whom haven't upgraded to HD and don't have the $$$ to. That was the biggest misstep, I think -- trying to be all things to all divisions of Sony. But we'll see in another year or so if that's gonna end up working for them or not.

Yes Blu-Ray is a nice extra feature. But if you don't have the TV to take advantage of it, it's as if you're forced to drive an 18-wheeler when all you needed was a pickup.

[HumanWaste]

I used to think that gaming should always be first priority when it came to purchasing a new piece of hardware. And while that's always, always something that is considered when going to the store, making the best possible choice as a consumer is the best way to go.

Looking at the PS3 and its Blu-ray player, I see loads of opportunity. Looking at the price tag, I see loads of disappointment. Why should I pay $600 for something I'll only be using a portion of? There are no HDTVs living in my household and I personally don't think there's going to be enough exclusive software for Sony's dream machine to warrant anything over standard console fare.

Within 3-6 years (more or less), I will own a PlayStation 3, let's just wait till every thing's worked out a bit

[mrplaid]

Wow. Everyone seems to be bashing this issue of EGM. And everyone seems especially critical of the cover. I'm loving this issue (cover included!) because it attaches itself to the current state of the industry and the (I hate this word) culture surrounding gaming rather than letting their magazine (as they discussed in podcast) become the extension of some new game's marketing scheme. EGM is really just about the only print mag still worth owning because, without getting into a debate over online versus print publications, they're the only print mag that knows exactly where they're at in this era of online dominance.

And regarding Shane... Seems to me like he's just sick of working for a game rag. Maybe he's leveraging his position as an editor to get a job as a PR person for Sony? In any case, I enjoy hearing Shane and Shoe go at it since Shane is so obviously wrong but he just won't admit it.

As for the whole HDDVD/Blu-Ray thing... It's not gonna be good for anyone. No company, no matter how big can arbitrarily shove a new medium down the public's throat prematurely. That said, Microsoft obviously made the smart move by allowing the HDDVD player to be optional.

[mik]

They've effectively priced themselves outside the range of a lot of their core customers, many of whom haven't upgraded to HD and don't have the $$$ to.

If you can afford to spend $400 on a toy, you can afford to spend $500 on a toy. Either one of those is effectively a brazilian dollars when you're buying textbooks and living on ramen.

[Losername]

I liked the podcast, and the interview with Tretton in the mag was pretty good. As far as the cable argument, obviously the Microsoft route is the best, a component/composite dual cable accommodates the most gamers and it's what Sony should have done. Shane admits that, the problem is he frames arguments in his own terms, and it's really frustrating for everyone else. Basically Shoe was saying just that about the Microsoft cables, and how that's what Sony should do. Shane quickly agrees, but then twists the argument. He gets someone to say "Sony touts this as high-def, but the don't include ways for people to utilize it", he then turns that into an argument about HDMI which it's not. His point about HDMI is valid, not a lot of people have it, and we're used to buying new cables if we want the very best picture available. But in reality it's not the only way to do high-def.

The guy just likes to argue. As the gaming industry gets bigger and more mainstream these sort of 'personas' are going to become more common. I think it's fine, even though he's a jerk occasionally, he knows what he's talking about a lot of the time. Plus we all keep listening, so it must not be that bad. I thought it was interesting that he got called out for becoming a caricature of himself.

Edited by Losername, 14 February 2007 - 08:16 AM.

[burgervan]

I'm not a big fan of Jennifer's hosting style, but I'll give her points for telling Shane he's becoming a caricature of himself. I understand that he feels people are being too harsh on a system that's only a few months old, but some of his arguments are insane. He's actually a really smart, funny guy when he just chills out. He's great on Retronauts and 1Up Yours(when they're not arguing about PS3).

[DistantStorm]

I'm with mrplaid on this one. I really liked the issue. It's a direction I'd like to see EGM pursue farther. Print mags in general need to shift away from their traditional role-providing information about individual games. Websites handle the day-today details extremely effectively. These days news is now old literally the second it hits the page. So what's to be done?

Take an approach like EGM has. Focus more on broader themes and issues within the industry. Address topics that have a longer shelf life. Few publications are in a position that EGM, with it's history and name recognition, is in. That leverage is the best weapon they have, enabling them to secure the kinds of exclusives game blogs and even some major websites just don't have access to, like Jack Tretton or CliffyB and Epic.

Stories like this month's cover feature are more useful in gauging the state of the industry as a whole, during a certain period of time than focusing on a single game- a quick scan of my EGM archive (aka the closet) shows me that issue #143, June '01 has Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 as the cover feature. Doesn't really tell me a whole lot. A few years down the road if I look back at issue 213, I can get a sense of where things stood in the world of gaming- the status of the PS3 and the Playstation name overall were in jeopardy. Websites are transient and contextual. Print magazines, by their very nature, are physical, substantial. Their content should be the same.

And on the subject of Shane, yeah, he really does come across like a pompous ass whenever the matter of Sony arises, but you can't fault him on his hardcore cred; the man knows his shit something fierce. Besides, in the age of podcasts you need flamboyant personalities like his and Luke Smith who can talk the talk. Not everyone out there is podcast material.
That being said. James Mielke NEEDS to be on 1upYours more often. If anyone there can give Shane a comeuppance, it's him, hands DOWN.

[Losername]

It really does make for compelling listening in that whats-he-going-to-say-next sort of way.

Though in 3 years when ps3 is king shit of **** mountain his head may explode.